Creating Better Marketing Emails with Peter Clark from Journey

DISCLAIMER: Below is an AI generated transcript. There could be a few typos but it should be at least 90% accurate. Watch video or listen to the podcast for the full experience!

Peter Clark 0:00
If you’re trying to recruit someone, that’s a story, if you’re trying to fundraise, that’s a story. If you’re trying to do a blog or an interview, that’s a story. And is there a better medium than what exists today? That’s what we’re really excited about.

Alexander Ferguson 0:17
Welcome to UpTech Report. This is our applied tech series UpTech Report is sponsored by TeraLeap. Learn how to leverage the power of video at teraleap.io. Today, I’m excited to be joined by my guest, Peter Clark, who’s based in Seattle, Washington. He’s the CEO and co founder at Journey. Welcome, Peter, good to have you on.

Peter Clark 0:35
Hey, thanks for having me.

Alexander Ferguson 0:37
Now Journey, your product is what you call a storytelling platform for the internet. Now that’s it’s kind of fun, it’s kind of interesting, it leaves a fairly vague, which may be on purpose, how we understand what’s the problem that you initially saw, and set out to solve?

Peter Clark 0:54
Yeah, I think what we found was trying to buy software on the internet is inevitably salespeople saying, hey, let’s jump on the phone. And you know, as a buyer, you don’t always want to do that I don’t always want to go through every relatively draconian sales process of talking to an SDR, you know, not getting the pricing not seeing a product demo getting, you know, switched to a different person. And, you know, you get you go through this whole rigmarole. And we were like, isn’t there a better way of fixing that, and, and that’s kind of what we, you know, having ran growth, seeing a lot of metrics about the stuff, we were really excited about trying to try to fix that and make that a better experience for both buyers and sellers.

Alexander Ferguson 1:33
So it’s definitely on the sales cycle, the sales process that you saw this opportunity of, alright, that everyone always follows the journey. But how can you make that more interesting, be able to tell the story better than Am I getting that right? It’s like, that’s what you saw?

Peter Clark 1:44
Yeah, I think what we saw was storytelling is this really interesting thing that isn’t really spoken about as like a concept, but sales is obviously storytelling. And there’s stories are told all over the place. You know, if you’re trying to recruit someone, that’s a story, if you’re trying to fundraise, that’s a story. If you’re trying to do a blog or an interview. That’s a story. And is there a better medium than what exists today? That’s what we’re really excited about.

Alexander Ferguson 2:10
So take me back then. When did you first start thing but what year was this, that you saw this challenge before you started the company?

Peter Clark 2:17
Yeah. So it was 2010. So 11 years ago?

Alexander Ferguson 2:23
Okay, yeah,

Peter Clark 2:24
I moved, I moved to America to go through investor, Y Combinator. And I went through with a mobile app, which was an asynchronous video messaging product. And this was before Snapchat, this was just as the iPhone was coming out. And it was, the concept that we were pitching was video voicemail. And, you know, what we found was that the product didn’t really work for various reasons, you know, it just was hard to convince people to take videos at the time and those things. But what we did see was that emails were working really well, we could drive people back into the product, if you sign up for the product, you know, you get an email Three days later. So we ended up pivoting the company and starting a company called us a fox, which was a b2b email marketing product. And when I was running that company, I saw that, hey, sending more emails has a profound impact on your business. You know, if you send you know, if you look at that, yeah, yeah, just you know, if you just, if you look at most startups, they send one email to a new user, it turns out, if you send four, it’s much better. And that, that, that is actually not that, you know, groundbreaking of an insight, because what happens is emails just have a really bad conversion rate, you know, like 0.5% conversion rates, if you send four emails, you obviously improve the chance of that conversion rate. And then, as you built this product, we saw, like, you hit like a ceiling of how many emails Can you send, because you can’t send hundreds of emails. So then you need to start sending better emails. And that’s really hard. And you know, it’s hard to write an email, it’s hard to create a landing page and all these things. So in the back of my mind, I was like, the, there’s a really big business, not in sending emails, but in making the content of the email much, much, much, much better. And then use a fox got acquired by ad roll, where I worked with, I think, one of your previous

guests, Adam Burke, and he was the CMO and I worked with him for four years and working at a b2b company, I saw the exact same thing, a salesperson has to try and sell their product. And writing this amazing single email works not as good as sending for very short, simple emails. So it’s the same problem, which is, you want to send more emails, there’s a ceiling to how many emails you can send. And also, salespeople have another interesting challenge of bandwidth constraint. They can’t spend three hours on one email. So how do you increase that so kind of back in my mind, hey, this is same problem. I then left ad roll. And I went and worked at the e cigarette company juul j u ul, where I ran, if you’re familiar with the vaping company, and I ran super random, very rid of a random step, but I really wanted to sit on the other side of the table of product and marketing. And, you know, I was selling, I’d been selling growth and marketing software for eight years at that point, and I really wanted to be the buyer to understand what does it feel like to be buying these tools, spending six figures on these tools, and I worked at jewel, and we sell. Firstly, we saw the same problem. But on the other side, which was salespeople send me barrage of emails, and I was getting dozens of emails from sales reps, they were all garbage, not at all compelling, you know, getting an email Sunday morning, which says, Hey, Peter, do you wanna jump on the phone for 15 minutes to talk about my vague product is like, No, that was one. And then jewel had the same problem as ad roll. And as you know, every startup I worked with, which was telling their story, very complex, very charged sensitive story, we had an email marketing product, we used iterable, we had 10s of millions of users in this database, really hard to send emails really hard to write an email that converts really hard to convince someone to make a very sensitive decision like switching from combustible cigarettes to vaping very hard to create a landing page that tells that story. So at joule, we actually saw the same problem again, which was it isn’t just selling software, that’s hard buying software, it’s on both sides of this equation. You know, if I want to buy a new b2b product, which tool you know, I had a million dollar budget for software, I was just getting inundated with these generic emails. But then also on the consumer side, the same problem, which was Hey, it’s actually really, really hard to communicate with consumers at scale, you know, the very best in breed products, the clever use of the world, the Optimizely of the world, what do they let you do they let you insert Alexander into the subject line, they don’t let you move the story forward in a meaningful way. It’s like the very most sophisticated email marketers will basically you know, insert your name and maybe a B test the button color but it isn’t, you’re not drastically changing that story. So again, back in the mind that was now you know, three very clear points of there’s a problem here of how we communicate on the internet. So that was very long winded but hopefully that made sense.

Alexander Ferguson 7:27
I want to take a step back for a moment so 2010 you first initially start to realize the need for better storytelling that this this this stretch of opportunity and you start with kind of in the video space not working out but turns into a problem with the first company Fox

Peter Clark 7:43
use a fox an email marketing

Alexander Ferguson 7:47
email marketing, which then gets acquired what was the year frame can remember just like the time timeline, so

Peter Clark 7:53
yeah, the company use a Fox was started in 2010 and it was acquired by ad roll in 2013. Okay, and then you’ve worked on

Alexander Ferguson 8:02
for four years so then you go into in 2017 2018 2018 and then and then from there when when did now then journey.io come into existence.

Peter Clark 8:15
So I worked at jewel for two years so I left in early 2020 and at that point was really like hey, this there’s something interesting here of these data points that I’ve accumulated. And then it took us about six months to figure out what is this product and you know, that was like the back half of 2020 and then I think by January of this year we were like this is approximately what we’re going to build

Alexander Ferguson 8:46
when you when you began your co founders of how did you guys meet How did you start talking about this? Are you naturally just ready to dive in and leave a nice comfy corporate job and start again?

Peter Clark 9:00
Well my two co founders and Neil and Brendan I worked with them at Admiral and Anil, I worked with that jewel as well. So he was he’s been my engineering counterpart at Admiral and a jewel. So the three of them were a natural fit to start this company because they have all of the same anecdotes as me.

Alexander Ferguson 9:20
And and this being your second one that you’ve now started and began, were there any before Fox says this or or is this was at the

Peter Clark 9:30
we did a few I did a few when I was back in England. I graduated school in 22,007. And I spent the subsequent three years before I moved to America doing I wouldn’t necessarily call them startups but projects or things and you know, just you know, iPhone apps when the iPhone first came out and was really, you know, we would we would 22 we didn’t know we 22 in 2008 was very before startups were really a thing. So we were just interested in we were very into Followed by like, desktop Mac applications that we thought were really good and just building interesting things, mostly unsuccessfully.

Alexander Ferguson 10:08
I feel like you start to paint this picture of, you know, 2010, you’ve seen this this challenge that it’s just a constant evolution of this idea, you know, the more it goes into this thing, and then but it’s, you’re still always on this the same track? Am I understanding that correctly? Is this is like one long track for you? Or do you see them all different ideas?

Peter Clark 10:30
I’d say it’s all it’s all related. Yeah, it was only when you when we started journey, and then we looked back, he started connecting a number of dots.

Alexander Ferguson 10:41
When you when you jump in with your co founders are there they’re like, Oh, yes, immediately they they get it lightbulb, or was there a lot of discussion, the beginning with with journey.

Peter Clark 10:52
Um, we were, I think, unusually academic, in what we were doing, we basically wrote up, we word up kind of a thesis, which was around, okay, if you, if you build this new medium for storytelling, it would have a few really compelling attributes. So firstly, it would be incredibly viral. So the theory would go, if you built a new medium for storytelling, and then someone received that story, and it was delivering on its promise of it working, they would be compelled to also use that product. Because, you know, it’d be like a glass of cold ABA, like a glass of ice cold water, where you’re like, Oh, this is very different from what I previously experienced. And most importantly, it genuinely works. And, and what we kind of felt like was that is, it’s good and bad, the good with the bad is that it’s a huge bar, very high bar, you know, we’re basically reinventing a video as a concept in some ways. But the good is that if you can crack it up, the business has some very large benefits, that the virality becomes really, really, really strong. So we were kind of like, hey, let’s just like focus on this problem area, we don’t know what the product will look like. But the thesis of this virality of you get it? And it’s like, oh, wow, this is really interesting is really exciting to us.

Alexander Ferguson 12:11
You bootstrap this from beginning get funding, like what was your approach to getting this kick started?

Peter Clark 12:17
We made a, the problem we have was from the very beginning was nobody had any idea what we were talking about, we didn’t have a product. And we would say things like, we are building a storytelling tool. And they’d be like, what does that mean? You’d be like, it’s a bit like video plus text combined, but like much better than a presentation. And people would be like, but what is it but who would use it? And then you start saying, Well, everybody can tell stories. So like sales and marketing or founders, you end up with this, like very amorphous product. So we got a very, very early prototype, which was, you know, we built in, you know, a nail was a very talented engineer. So we built a prototype, and we use that prototype to raise money. So the prototype was fundraising deck. And it was very, it was very obviously, unintentionally crappy. But it was meant to just like paint the picture of it was really around, choose your own adventure presentations. Like, what if a presentation wasn’t just linear, but it had like a decision tree where you could say, well, who’s the team? Or how much you raising? And you could like, kind of go through it that way.

Alexander Ferguson 13:18
At terminal, choose your own adventure? Yes. Everyone can think of whether the old books in your okay go to page seven, or the text base choose. But so you create a mock up, and you use that to get the funding to people, when you have even just a basic mock up, what were your funding partners, when they get it to the investors See

Peter Clark 13:37
it? We got really lucky, where we found a few investors very early on, where they were like, they, they really got excited about the idea that, hey, if you can build this tool, the use cases can explode this. You know, air conditioner installer, installing man, he should use a journey to send his $12,000 proposal for AC units. Tesla selling your new car, there’s all these touch points. So they got really excited about this massive addressable market of storytelling. And so we raised two and a half million dollars in about two weeks, before we add a product. Wow.

Alexander Ferguson 14:14
Okay. So and then and then you’re you’re you’re off to the races, building it, was it as simple as creating it and just making it better. Like what’s what’s the I know, it’s not been that long, and they all been a year now. But what what’s the process been like this past year?

Peter Clark 14:31
I think we’ve realized that we’ve realized that it’s much bigger opportunity than we expected. The virality is a lot more exciting than we expected. Honestly, it’s even in the first version of the product, we see a ton of virality. And so we’ve kind of realized that we in some ways, I think that we thought that we’d be much further along now than where we are. But we what we found is just like building this product is really complex. So you know, we’re just scratching the surface in some ways.

Alexander Ferguson 14:59
When you say complex, like, help me understand what is the complexity,

Peter Clark 15:04
it’s the modular nature of the product. So a journey is composed of a number of different assets. So you can have video, you can have slides, you can have your calendar, you know, dockside, you know, you can kind of drag and drop a whole bunch of content and then sequence them. And what we found is that it’s really hard to create a user interface that allows you to embed all of this content in a very intuitive way. And then also, it’s very, it’s hard to do that. And then it’s also very complex, because the recipient has no awareness of the journey. So you know, if you go in, you create a journey and you drop in three or four different things. That’s one problem of how do you do that building experience, then the other side is also true, which is how do you make that experience, you know, much better for the recipient as well.

Alexander Ferguson 15:54
The two sided the two sided piece. And I appreciate your earlier you were talking about where you saw the problem being this, this challenge of you, you need to send better emails, and have better stories to all in the same amount of time and the experience both for the person who’s trying to tell the story as well as the person who wants to consume the story, making it a positive experience. Has there been any aha moments like something when you start to build it, and you saw reaction on one piece that you weren’t expecting, or just any realizations this past year that that got you excited?

Peter Clark 16:30
Yeah, I’d say that we can expect to see the traction that we’ve seen in fundraising, which is, it’s funny because we prototype worked really well for fundraising. But we see a lot of startups using journey for fundraising. And it kind of makes sense, because that’s like the biggest deal of your life in some ways. So you really want to make that presentation is really good. But we have you know, at any given time, we have 50, or 75, startups sending journeys out as a way of like an interactive medium for fundraising. So people are raising, you know, $5 million on an interactive journey, which is super exciting. And I wouldn’t say it was a, I wouldn’t say that was a use case that we were initially focused on.

Alexander Ferguson 17:09
Which by itself gets your name in every and every whoever gets the virality is built into it. They help market the product for the data itself, and people using it anything you can share, just like right now of what people are, how many people are using it, or the number of journeys being created, or anything that you know, off the top of your head that you’re able to share?

Peter Clark 17:34
Yeah, I mean, we just crossed 1200 journeys created by users. So it’s a it’s a large milestone for us. I mean, obviously, we have crossed 1000. That was the big milestone. And we’ve, you know, be cross that a few weeks ago. And now we’re up to about 1200. So that’s one that we think is really exciting. And then yeah, we have about, you know, I would say we have about, I’d say we have around 250 active users in the platform. So yeah, that so we’re super early with the version that we have on the website is like the V zero and we’re introducing app v1, I would say in the next month or so.

Alexander Ferguson 18:09
Oh, okay. As a disclaimer for the viewers, I have been using this production before I even got to interview Peter. It was Adam, who told me about you guys, I ended up looking it up. And I’m like, Alright, definitely got to interview. But I ended up saying, You know what, I want to start using this already. And I I been trying to tone down my excitement for it. But the only thing is, you’ll really see the value once you get into it. As you just stated earlier telling someone else all there’s just there’s just a better way to put all your stuff together and share it with someone. I mean, in the past I put like a Google just links google doc or links in an email and it just noted pay attention to it. No one want to click on it. And have already all the people that I send this to like, what is this? I want to go try it out? And I’m like, yeah, there’s a waitlist. But that’s an interesting approach. Also, you guys chose the waitlist approach. Why didn’t you do that?

Peter Clark 18:59
Just be good. So if you’re building a product that has virality, and like product, lead growth, that’s kind of the fancy term for it. I think it’s just it’s actually much harder than people realize, to build those products, you have to have, you know, as few edges as possible and has to be a really good experience. And we’re not there yet. So we we’ve been kind of onboarding people and, you know, being trying to figure out Firstly, what does the builder experience look like? And then secondly, what does the onboarding experience look like? Do you do like a superhuman style, you know, where you have to have a meeting with someone, which I always think is like incredibly draconian, you know, it’s good goes against the philosophy of the company. But at the same time, we’re six months in so we haven’t built everything. We haven’t manifested that the entire product yet. So we’re trying to thread this needle. But if people we know if uptick viewers sign up for the waitlist and they put your name in the comments, you know, that will obviously will be send them an invite immediately.

Alexander Ferguson 19:53
So it’s not it shouldn’t be a barrier for people to be able to sign up. But interesting, you make a great point because I’ve had Several people on the series who are more product lead. And it is not easy it the upside if you can get it to where people just get it and they start signing on. Did you product lead with user Fox as well? Or was that was your approach on that one?

Peter Clark 20:18
Yeah, I mean, I think it’s a, I think it’s really important to define what product lead growth is. So, you know, use a fox and ad roll was a bottoms up product, anybody could use that product. So, you know, is that product lead growth, you know, yes, and I get I suppose it is. But you know, I define product lead growth as something like calendly, or like DocuSign and DocuSign, sorry, or doc send, where the product itself is a vehicle for driving signups. So actually, you have a viral loop of you, as a user can get me more more users for my product. You know, and that’s the key distinction here, which is like that additional step of virality, which most b2b companies do not have.

Alexander Ferguson 21:10
For and you’re saying waitlist, being able to talk to each person and helping them on is a better at the beginning. Eventually, you’re saying once a card off the edges, that’s something you would take away?

Peter Clark 21:22
Absolutely, I think it’ll be gone in a few months, it’s really just a matter of, you know, we didn’t we wanted to be cognizant of the first journey that you see should be reasonably good. You know, and we didn’t want to, you know, just, if you build a, if you build a software in a month, and then you expect 1000s of people to use it, it’s obviously not going to be the best experience. And then you know, it’s like, they all end up being lethargic about using the product, or they weren’t used the product correctly, because he hasn’t got the guidance. So you can kind of go into a bit of a like a spiral in in a bad way.

Alexander Ferguson 21:55
If going back to your to yourself, like when you start a user for like 1010 years, 1011 years ago, and you were to tell you something, tell yourself something that you know, now, is there any, like major learnings that come to you, you want to go back and tell yourself,

Peter Clark 22:13
I would say the single thing that I think about, and wish I would do more of is move slower, be more methodical and move slower, and like be more iterative. And don’t let products out of the bag until you really feel like they’ve been proven with a small amount of users.

Alexander Ferguson 22:32
What Okay, let’s break that one down. Because it’s actually opposite of a lot of other people said that they’ve said, move faster, get get things rolling, don’t be afraid. Why why move slower and more

Peter Clark 22:43
methodical? Well, I think, because I think the bar for software today is very high. Like, I think that the idea that, you know, there’s that there’s a like a meme of like an MVP, which is a bicycle with one wheel, and it falls over versus like a skateboard that becomes a bicycle. And like, that is just not useful advice. Because it’s so hard to create a product where you have one feature, and that one feature is like a killer feature. Because users are inundated with software nowadays, they don’t want to use 1000 different pieces of software, the sum of the product is often is like greater than the single features in some ways, you know, you have to like, so I think that you know, and we’ve seen this journey, which is if we’re the storytelling tool, if you have an editor, which is you’ve thrown together is really complex. People don’t want to use that if you have an editor, which is very intuitive, people will use it. So I think what founders and people need to ask themselves is is that what are you trying to learn by launching in a month? Because, like, most of the time, what people learn is, it’s not good enough. It’s like it isn’t, you know, people like to think that finding product market fit is it’s very binary thing where it’s like you launch and it either blows up or implodes. But the reality of software is 95% of things. You’re in this fudgy gray area, where it’s like, well, I have some users that like my product, and I have many users that haven’t used it yet. Well, do they not like it? Or are they not used it yet? And I think, I think if you the more iteration and care you put in your into your product, the more you can narrow that gray area. And I think that that’s a really important thing for founders to spend. Not one month, but three months to make it so it’s more of a shot at being a binary thing.

Alexander Ferguson 24:28
My next question was going to be what is your metrics of knowing when is it ready to move to the next stage or you’re saying your method of methodology? approach? Is Is it like a three month is it just basically 3x longer take 3x longer to think about something?

Peter Clark 24:43
I think it’s giving it to uses and my getting that feedback, watching them recording the sessions and making sure that they like they go into the funnel and come out the other end. That’s really that’s really what matters. Like do they get confused, do they bail Do they not get excited about it? And they that’s really what matters. And you know, like, if you spent three months versus one month, you will get more users going through that funnel. You know, it’s, you know, just it’s very hard to build really good software really quickly. That’s really thoughtful. And you need to like, spend more time, I’m not saying that no user should use it. I’m not saying that you should just go off to the mountains and have nobody use this product. But I think it’s really important to be aware that if you take a product like linear, if you’re familiar with linear linear dot app, it’s a JIRA alternative. And why is it better than JIRA, it’s better because it’s better software, there’s no single feature that I can tell you, that’s really good. There’s no individual widget or feature or doodad, that it does, where you’re like, wow, there’s so much better. But when you use the product, it’s a very cohesive experience. It’s very fast, it works really well. And in 2021, people like using software that’s genuinely good and has a level of craftsmanship. And you kind of get that you kind of get that number.

Alexander Ferguson 25:59
Switching gears, a little bit of coming to the storytelling. Let’s pontificate here, let’s look forward more than where you are right now, five, maybe even 10 years from now. But let’s just look at five. What will the future storytelling look like on the internet?

Peter Clark 26:19
Yeah, I think that if you look at the mediums right now, if you look at this interview, if I wanted to share this interview, and I wanted to only listen to the part about the MVP discussion, video is quite a challenging format to do that kind of thing. So and I personally am a fast reader. So I like to read transcripts, but then transcripts, you know, use a lot of quality. You know, they’re not edited, necessarily as the video. So what we’re really excited about is creating a content medium, which can adapt what the, how the recipient wants to consume the content. So imagine a video where there’s very clear chapters, and then when I’m in the chapter, I can press a button, and I can have that just reveal the transcript. And they can be very clear call to actions. So when I referenced linear earlier, he would obviously be a link to view that product. And like that’s kind of what we’re really excited about. It’s it’s more like a video game intro sequence, where you know, it’s like telling you to move in directions as guidance has interactivity, and it’s very engaging.

Alexander Ferguson 27:24
What are your thoughts on especially as of this recording? There’s a couple events coming up. Today, it was one with Facebook next week was with Apple in the AR space, and there’s things in VR, do you have any perspectives on on more immersive storytelling as well? Do you think you’ll ever play in that space? Or what are your thoughts on that, when it comes to storytelling?

Peter Clark 27:46
I can see it for, you know, movies will be replaced by video games, and it makes sense that video games who have that level of of reality, you know, augmentation and stuff, but I don’t think there’s any I don’t think there’s any. I don’t think there’s any I think for collaboration is really exciting. But I think for external stuff, it’ll be really hard to get for that stuff to be really resonate with people.

Alexander Ferguson 28:10
So for, like in the b2b space, being able to use interactive, more immersive, let me not say interactive, let me say immersive storytelling experience, not for the foreseeable future. So

Peter Clark 28:21
I think it’s it’s my concern is, is that you need to lower the bar and not raise the bar, you know, software in 2021, especially b2b software, the velocity of sales is ever increasing, people are trying more products, the bar is getting lower and lower and lower. So that’s kind of where you want to aim where they feel like the VR stuff is going to be a higher bar to commitment not.

Alexander Ferguson 28:44
Got it? Yeah, it’s it’s what most people knowing that everyone could use that that’s what they want to focus on, versus only a few people and a select group.

Peter Clark 28:53
Yeah. I think for things like customer success, it’s really exciting. You know, you could do, you know, onboarding, and it could become like, you know, you enter a virtual Apple theater, and it could become like, a really hands on experience like that, like that stuff is cool.

Alexander Ferguson 29:07
Okay, okay. And if, if they’re beyond just what we’ve talked about, is there anything that you’re very excited about when it comes to technology and predictions of what’s coming up?

Peter Clark 29:19
I’m really excited to see how artificial intelligence improves user experience. I think that this is an area where it doesn’t really happen today. But you know, I always use like the, you know, my iPhone keyboard as an example. It’s kind of shaky in terms of quality, but there’s clearly a lot going on in the background to figure out what words do I use? And I would love to see more around that, you know, like, Why do I have to drag apps to my homescreen? Why doesn’t it just know that I use the same apps at the same time and those kinds of things? So, you know, I think people are spending a lot of time you know, with AI and, you know, content generation and those kinds of things, but I’m really excited about how can a computer adapt to how I went to work

Alexander Ferguson 30:01
I’m letting that just sit there for a moment. How can a computer know how I want to work? And for it to adapt? Is that a difficult problem to solve, though?

Peter Clark 30:10
I think that, yes, but I think it’s absurd that in 2021, every website we visit, every browser that we use is the same, like, why is your in mind software experience the same? Like, maybe we have very different ways of working, maybe we have different kind of approaches or styles. And I think I think computers need to get much smarter.

Alexander Ferguson 30:31
If future is personalized through AI?

Peter Clark 30:34
Yeah, I think that it’s, it’s shocking to me that, you know, all these tools we use today. And I’m not picking on anyone in particular, but all software today doesn’t adapt to how a user wants to work.

Alexander Ferguson 30:47
Could you see if a future also with with journey, integrating elements of that, that the experience is customized by using some sort of, sort of Yeah,

Peter Clark 30:56
you know, I think the the analogy I always go back to is like, do you want to listen to a podcast or read an article? and individual recipients usually have a tendency towards one or the other? And how can you make the presentation or the journey that you’re on? Well automatically adapt to how the recipient wants to consume content? Maybe I just want to listen, like some people like audiobooks, some people like reading, some people like watching, and how can you make it so that that experience is the best for the recipient without being crushing for the creator?

Alexander Ferguson 31:29
A powerful future that in many ways is not that far away. Yeah. This the journey that you’ve taken us on Peter have from this idea already 1011 years ago that you had, that I think is worthwhile problem to solve of just better communicating and sharing information in a unique story. For those that want to learn more, I’m sure a lot of you do go over to journey.io and be able to join that waitlist or maybe by the time you watch this, that waitlist may will be gone and be able to explore more. Thank you so much, Peter, for for your time. Enjoy.

Peter Clark 32:07
Thank you for having me. Thank you very much.

Alexander Ferguson 32:09
And we’ll see you all on the next episode of UpTech Report. Have you seen a company using AI machine learning or other technology to transform the way we live, work and do business? Go to UpTech report.com. And let us know