Exploring Virtual Worlds and Metaverse Games with Alexander Fernandez of Streamline Media Group

DISCLAIMER: Below is an AI generated transcript. There could be a few typos but it should be at least 90% accurate. Watch video or listen to the podcast for the full experience!

Alexander Fernandez 0:00
So what you begin to realize is how do you get someone who wants to say yes to say yes, except they’re institutionalized to say no. So you learn to basically recognize that every person truly wants to be more than their station in life. You find the way to help them get there.

Alexander Ferguson 0:19
Welcome to UpTech Report. This is our applied tech series. UpTech Report is sponsored by TeraLeap, learn how to leverage the power of video at teraleap.io. Today, I’m excited to be joined by my guest, Alexander Fernandez, who’s based in Las Vegas, Nevada. He’s the co founder and CEO at Streamline Media Group. Welcome, Alexander. Good to have you on.

Alexander Fernandez 0:38
Hey, Alexander. Nice to Nice to meet you again. Talk to you again. And I guess, Alexander and Alexander so it’s gonna be a fun show.

Alexander Ferguson 0:47
Here we’re gonna we’re gonna have a giveaway. Here we go. So streamlined Media Group, you just celebrate 20 years. So congrats on that. You guys are focused on the Enterprise video game development area. Actually, you love actually Metaverse on your own. You talk about discussing and building. The Metaverse describe to me just very briefly one sentence like what is the problem that you are set to solve right now?

Alexander Fernandez 1:10
Yeah, so what we’re doing right now is that we’re building and creating meta versus for basically entertainment companies, enterprise companies, and basically brands, what’s happening right now is very simply put that every brand in this world now has to build creative, immersive experiences. And that runs straight to the heart of video games. And that’s what we do. We’re game developers turned let us help you solve what your needs are helping make it better or worse for you.

Alexander Ferguson 1:32
So let’s let’s go back then. And just hear a little bit of the journey. 2001 you get started with us for four co founders. Is that

Alexander Fernandez 1:41
correct? In Holland. So yeah, so back in 2001, I was young, I was 20 years old. When we started the business. I had curly hair. And obviously, that went away through the years of basically running and being an entrepreneur. You know, it was a fun time. I mean, I’ll be honest with you, it’s basically 20 years old, living in breathing in Amsterdam, and just doing all the fun things you can do in a city like Holland, or like city like Amsterdam, and a country like the Netherlands. Yeah, we started up with a very simple premise that we had been modders. In our teenage years, we’ve made a game called The gunman Chronicles that was published by Valve and Sierra back in 2000. And what we realized is that if we were going to continue making games, we were going to have to sell finance them. And the only way we could finance them was basically by selling our capabilities as services. And so you got to remember back in the day, there was no indie game development, there was no digital distribution, you had to effectively work in a closed ecosystem with companies like Electronic Arts, or Ubisoft. And you had to find a way into this realm. So what we realized early on was that the size and scale of video games was going to keep growing, we were great at our level design and engineering. So we thought, hey, you know what, during the day, we’ll sell our services to the developers and publishers. And by night, we’ll fund our games and, you know, do our own indie development in our house. And that’s how streaming was born.

Alexander Ferguson 2:56
So you see that? Well, first off, you have a desire, you’re like, we want to build games. How do we get to sell fun that you see then? Okay, maybe we can help work for them help offload some of the work, take it from them, these big game developers? Fast forward a few years? I mean, how long did that kind of continue to grow? Because now you have five different departments? Yeah, correct.

Alexander Fernandez 3:17
So we have five divisions. And those five divisions really focused on three revenue generating aspects of our company. So those five divisions are basically streamline studios, all pixels, Day Zero stream frame, and streamline games. And each one of those basically do things as different as our code QA localization for product development, as well as effectively developing bespoke platform software and bespoke software for the enterprise space. What we realized early on was that because games were getting more complicated, and the scale and scope of them would require more labor, in this case, more artisans and more engineers, that it would just become a no brainer that studios would have to find instant, just in time resources that were at a high skill, and able to jump in and help them finish their projects at a moment’s notice. At that moment in time, back in 2000, the concept of outsourcing or external development was pretty novel, I was actually laughed at in our first meeting. They’re like, never gonna happen, kid. And I’m like, okay, because video games are so special that we can’t figure out how to do things that other businesses do, which is really indicative of the games industry. Most of the time, we laugh at everything, until we end up realizing that yeah, we’re not that smart. So let’s figure out how to do it. So then what ends up happening here is that we take that understanding that this massive globalization and disruptions coming into other parts of businesses, it’s coming to games and streaming is gonna go ahead and help be a part of that disruption because it just made good business sense. So we did and that basically is what took us off.

Alexander Ferguson 4:44
You’re about 200 people today all over the world.

Alexander Fernandez 4:47
Yeah. 200 people, our primary production facilities based out of Kuala Lumpur, and then we have people in Latin America, the US, Europe, we have people all over the place and it’s really kind of a nod to the fact that every country The world now has basically the greatest thing in the world, which is a knowledge based economy. And they have young people that are highly skilled, highly skilled artists, engineers, they’re attracted to video games, they want to be a part of this industry. And now because of the internet, and now because of web three is what’s coming. Effectively, everyone’s gonna be able to be participating in these new economies and be able to actually get their talents and their skills out there and, and help really make a better living for themselves.

Alexander Ferguson 5:25
I love technology. I’m excited to talk very shortly more about Metaverse and where you’re going. But I’m also fascinated with business. I mean, as a leader, growing this with the other co founders, I’m sure there were a few challenges along these 20 year entire

Alexander Fernandez 5:39
thing was a challenge. To be honest with you, it’s like, let’s just be frank, I mean, starting a business is already hard. Starting a business in a country you’re not from is harder than starting a business in video games, or none of your clients are located in, it’s probably near damn impossible. So basically, what we ended up doing is we took the ultimate challenge, if you want to think of this, like a progressive beat him up, or basically a platformer game, it just got harder and harder and harder, until finally, you understood the patterns. And so I think one of the main things here, for any entrepreneur that’s out there, anyone who’s wanting, like desiring to be a business owner, you have to be willing to basically walk through the desert on your hands and knees with shards of glass stabbing you every other minute and be totally fine with that, and say, This too shall pass, I’ll get through it, it’ll be okay. Because you have that burning sense inside of you. And it’s not to be dramatic, but it’s just to be very clear that no one is going to help you. Nothing’s ever going to make you feel good about what you’re doing. But you have to be so filled with the desire to get there, that you’ll do what it takes within the realm of obviously, legality and morality, you don’t do things that are at, you know, unethical, you should ever do anything that puts you in jail. So really, it’s about being smart, but realizing you’re gonna have to like suffering, and actually, to be honest with you, the journey of suffering, the journey of trying the journey of pushing yourself. That’s really what this is about. I mean, when you when you look at anyone who works out anyone who basically becomes the best in their craft, there’s so much emphasis on the practice, the meditation, the relentlessness, about driving to be the best you can be in that craft to acquire that knowledge to push yourself. You get addicted to it. That’s honestly how it works. Because any other way of doing this makes no sense. You can dream of money, but you know, money comes and goes the money ain’t the reason why you do it. Let’s just be real, you do it because you truly want to achieve something. This

Alexander Ferguson 7:25
analogy you just gave, like a platformer where just gets harder and harder? And what you start to recognize the the patterns. Yeah, that’s, I like that analogy. What would you say? Because you really growing up in the video game industry? What were some of the patterns, you started to recognize and have like, learned like, Okay, this is how we’re able to double down.

Alexander Fernandez 7:46
You know, what you begin to realize just how much people don’t know anything, you begin to realize that most companies they cycle through and they segment knowledge in such a way that they lose institutional knowledge all the time. So what ends up happening is that when someone switches positions, everything they knew pretty much walked out the door. And anything that’s left is basically like a facsimile of a really bad copy of Xerox that no one really, you know, bothered to protect. So there’s opportunity in that loss, that loss of knowledge. The flip side, also, which you’re going to realize is that there are people that literally have meandering jobs or middling jobs in the middle where they don’t really do much except say no. So what you begin to realize is how do you get someone who wants to say yes, to say yes, except they’re institutionalized to say no. So you learn to easily recognize that every person truly wants to be more than their station in life, you find a way to help them get there. And you do that by being the person that can help make that happen by understanding what it is they’re trying to achieve. There is more about human interaction, human desire, than it is about anything else. Yes, you got to be good at your skill set. So yeah, your hard skills, engineering, art, you know, technology, whatever it is that you’re selling, needs to be good. But it’s really the soft skills that get you there, it’s understanding that basic human need to be more than what you are. By doing that, and focusing on that you can effectively build anything and you can achieve anything. Now the flip side is also a basic thing is that you got to be a human being. And you got to just basically break it down to the most simplest of things, there’s always going to be those that want and there’s gonna always be those that dream and there’ll be those that actually do. The difference between all three is the one that’s doing started walking about six years ago, seven years ago. And everyone said, Why are you walking like, well, I’m going somewhere, even if it wasn’t clear, that’s the person you’re going to go be with, because they’ve already made the decision to go on the journey, rather than talk about the journey analysis paralysis, and then they end up working for someone else dreaming of the day, when they retire. They’re like, Oh, I dream of now I’m dead. But I mean, it’s, you know, it’s as simple as that. I mean, it sounds kind of like what, but really break it down. You only have so much time in life. So you got to go out there and do it.

Alexander Ferguson 9:52
So your mentality is just just to go do it. It’s just to take action.

Alexander Fernandez 9:56
I mean, listen, you have to take action, but I mean, let’s be frank, you It’s not going to do it by itself. I can hope and dream all I want or I can get off my ass and go do it. Let me tell you which one gets done.

Alexander Ferguson 10:05
So if you think back, let’s say 10 years ago, can you think of a story or an experience that you can share of where you had to take a decision make a decision? And as a leader, and some of the lessons learned from that moment?

Alexander Fernandez 10:22
Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah, I can I can. I mean, a decade ago, simply put, I ended up Christmas right before Christmas, the financial crisis had hit the entire world was on fire, we had to shut down our production studio in Amsterdam, because of effectively clients going bankrupt on us. We had what we had had what was effectively the greatest year, we had ever had millions of euros of signed agreements evaporated, because games were financed on credit at the time. So basically, there when everything the world had basically decided to, you know, vomit on itself, and where it was, you know, happening, and we were a business that got hit by it. What was phenomenal about this, though, is that we had one chance, and I sat there with my partners, and I said, Listen, we have the opportunity to move to Southeast Asia, we’ve done feasibility studies on 18 cities throughout the world, there’s this place called Kuala Lumpur, we just come back from it. And I’m like, I’m willing to put everything on this move, that this will be the move that will help jumpstart us to where we need to be to make this work. And I said, Listen, I respect everyone here, if you don’t want to do it, if you think this is too crazy, if you want to basically go work at a normal job and go do it, no big deal. But I think this is the best move we could do. And at the table, my partners and I said, Okay, let’s do it. We’re in Amsterdam, mind you, they had never been there before. I was the only one. With the exclusion of one partner of mine, sight unseen, we made the decision. We’re moving to Southeast Asia. And by March, the following year, in 2010, we showed up seven people showed up. Basically, like I said, we some people showed up with a bunch of hardware. And we said, Okay, let’s do it again. And that’s what we did. But that’s just doing it, you just do it turned out to be the best thing we ever did. And

Alexander Ferguson 12:05
so coming coming to now 10 years later, is there anything that you wish you could have gone back and told yourself that you know, now already in 2021?

Alexander Fernandez 12:19
Buy more crypto? No, I mean, if we’re talking about in business, you know what, honestly, you can always learn something, but I have no regrets. I don’t live my life with regret. I live my life based on the decisions I make. And I take them with the best information I have. Doesn’t mean it’s always right. A lot of times it’s not right. But I’m willing to learn and basically fall fast fall forward, fall often, and keep on going. So here we go.

Alexander Ferguson 12:46
And you make it happen. Now, when did the shift to enterprise happen?

Alexander Fernandez 12:50
You know what, it’s funny. But if you were to look at the original business plan of streamline in 2001, it is literally sitting in there, we were just 19 years early. That was the problem. This is always a tendency of streamline, we’re always early and 19 years ago, I’m looking at the plan. I actually was looking at it this week, and I’m seeing our enterprise plan. We are seeing this convergence of technologies 19 years ago, using a little bit slightly different language, but literally the spirit is there. And at that moment in time, we just knew it was going to happen. And there were a couple of false starts in 2004 2009. We saw different starts again in 2011. And then finally, the I guess the only benefit of COVID was that it really jumpstart the revolution to work from anywhere, work from home. And of course, the fact that generationally speaking Gen X, millennials, millennial, Gen Z, they are natives of technology. They understand this, and especially Gen Z, they demand their interactions, their their socializing their commerce, to be taking place in something that’s a little bit more responsive than an app that was made by someone who didn’t even realize that there was a computer because it wasn’t one when they were young. So these are the things that basically make a difference. And so when when we looked at it again, say in 21 2016 2017, we kept looking at it. We just saw that the time was coming that this would happen. And I just didn’t think it was gonna be a pandemic that would make it happen. But, you know, again, it’s unfortunate that it’s happened this way. But on the flip side is it’s kind of exciting that it’s happened because now everyone’s mind has gone through the collective trauma. And now we’re kind of open to I guess there are different ways to do things. Let’s do it.

Alexander Ferguson 14:30
Metaverse is a buzzword that I feel like a lot of people are talking about or have talked about. And I agree with COVID accelerated this movement to okay all digital. But what is what does Metaverse mean? Do?

Alexander Fernandez 14:42
You know what Metaverse means to me is nothing more than our physical and digital personas becoming a unified reality. Let me go ahead and tell you what that means. It means that literally in the end of the day, I can buy a product in a store that has a digital twin that exists in the digital space that is locked with an NFT that has Some form of basically attribute that’s located on the blockchain that I can then take, let’s say a bag from Louis Vuitton. I have the physical bag, I got this digital twin and now I can take that bag with me into fortnight or into any and any other immersive experience where I want to showcase my avatar. And it’s geared towards another person within that same space. Yeah, maybe one day it means having a wire connected to you. But you know, honestly, I’m not looking forward to that. I’m looking forward more to the practical use and application because honestly, we live in a Metaverse right now think about GPS, the craziest thing that we drive our cars being told to turn right turn left by basically these applications that then have 3d representations of the communities we live in. That’s the metaverse. That’s the metaverse happening since 2009. But this is the thing that I’m talking about. It’s all of the input all of the data that we are constantly gathering every minute every second becoming usable for everyday people. That to me is the metaverse Yes, one day, you might become the singularity you might become you know, Neo, I don’t know. But honestly, it comes down to practical implementations and utility to make our lives easier to solve Ford for basic everyday life. And then complex problems.

Alexander Ferguson 16:16
What’s the roadblock? So the the barriers to to explore this further?

Alexander Fernandez 16:21
I think one of the biggest things is there’s been a and this has been a this was not a limitation, but there was just a generational thing because if you think about this, there’s a real separation between traditional business models, and the metaverse. The Metaverse is literally about one to one ownership of everything. It’s not about, you know, creep book or a social media platform controlling your data. It’s literally about you controlling your data and understanding how to trade your data for the services and products you want. It’s about not having the nanny state, in this case, big tech telling you what you should do. It’s you basically deciding this is what I want. And this is how I do it. The other side on this too is that basically you gotta understand that there have been traditional powers that basically don’t necessarily want this to happen, because ultimately creates new GDP and it creates new working opportunities. Let’s be honest, the entire idea of work from home isn’t novel, sound like people haven’t been remote workers. We used to call it telecommuting. Do you remember that? I telecommute. I mean, you don’t need to see what people do every minute. Every second, you know, butts in seats does not equal productivity. I think we learned that about no 50 years ago. What it comes down to is basically building culture of trust, building a organization where people are results driven, results oriented and basically capturing the meta of the goodwill and turning that into productivity, turning that into financial returns and results for everyone else. I think ultimately, at the end of the day, we face traditional management, traditional business orthodoxy that wants to be like no, I need to control I need to have, you know, command and control rather than turning into Commander’s Intent. Commander’s Intent is what the world is. Now, it’s not about what you can tell me as a boss, because let’s be frank, the boss didn’t really care about you when they fired you during COVID. Let’s be honest, we saw that too. So that’s also the other side of it. So I think we’ve entered this brave new world where people understand very simply put, it’s like, what you create is what you have. And so you should be looking at every opportunity, create wealth and value for yourself. That’s really where we’re going to as a society,

Alexander Ferguson 18:20
individuals creating more items themselves and creating more wealth

Alexander Fernandez 18:23
for correct and teaming up. Let’s be clear, it’s not about being individuals for the sake of individuality. So I think the reality is, is nothing great can be built alone. It’s about teams of people coming together. It’s really about communal economics. It’s about people understanding that the community can create opportunities, but the community has to work together. I mean, that’s what a company is at startup is nothing more than a series of individuals coming together as a team to make something that doesn’t exist.

Alexander Ferguson 18:48
So we’ve got a little meta on the metaverse. But it’s powerful to see where it can go the reason for it, but let’s tie it back here just for a second, you’re working with enterprise and you’re not working with individuals helping them become better on Metaverse, you’re working with enterprise to take advantage of this shift like what what

Alexander Fernandez 19:09
we’re working with both to be honest with you, because you got to understand it from this perspective is that individuals basically realizing their own capabilities and their own their own options that exist in this world today. So I think that there’s an underlying current here that’s happening that people have to wake up to because you know, what is a gig worker? And I don’t mean to gig worker in the Uber lift like I was in a great that I pay you nothing and you get exploited type of mentality, I mean it from the standpoint of like you really choose when you want to work you get to choose when you’re doing things, you know, and you get health insurance, you have collectiveness talking about that perspective. Now, what companies are looking for right now, the same your enterprise businesses, is they need to remain relevant. They need to be able to corral customers and give them basically games and entertainment to keep them coming back to still be a part of the culture that they’re selling to because let’s be honest, most brands sell to 18 36 year olds, male and female disposable income brackets, you know, advertising to television where they’re not, it’s kind of a failed experiment, going digital, okay, Chris Gray, but they’re not on Facebook because of all the reasons we’ve just learned why they’re not on Facebook, accept their parents are on Facebook. But you know what, the parents aren’t buying anything. So then the reality comes down to where are they? Oh, they’re in games, oh, what are they doing in games, they’re socializing. They’re basically hanging out with their friends. They’re spending time. So I’m a brand, I’m a company. And I basically have two challenges, one to make sure the consumer finds me relevant. So I need to capture their intention. Help them basically understand what I do product discovery, drive to purchase entertaining them. The flip side is I also have a bunch of young people working for me, what do I need to do change management, train them in a way that they understand how to interface with people and my business. So there’s two really powerful things happening here, the generational change, but the retirement of the baby boomers and the rise of Gen Z in the workforce with millennials, Gen X and xennials. All together. Then the second thing is basically the fact that the digitization of financial assets through crypto blockchain and NF T’s, those are coming together to form this new economy. And that economy, right there is what all of the brands realize. Because ultimately, in the end the day what it means for them is a true measure of brand affinity, loyalty and the ability to build a community. And why is community powerful, because what video games learned about 30 years ago, so you can take the most awkward backward, anti social people, turn them into a community, and they will generate $200 billion. So you know, in the most sarcastic way possible, they understand that and most brands are like, Oh my God, you’re right. We should do that, too. Yeah, no doubt, you should do that. Except you do it with relevance. And you do it not by making crap product, but making great product, which requires high end, triple A development to create suspension of disbelief that they’re only used to seeing, and most big budget products, big budget games. That’s what brands have realized at this moment in time.

Alexander Ferguson 22:02
And you give any examples or case studies I’m paying attention to, but there may be those out there that Yeah, absolutely.

Alexander Fernandez 22:08
I mean, I would drive or want to go to check out Balenciaga is Afterworld project that we did in December of last year. I mean, it’s a bit self serving. But yeah, let me use that as an example. I mean, Balenciaga luxury fashion brand approached us saying, Hey, can you bring our fall 2021 Fashion lineup into onto the metaverse, we said, Yeah, sure, let’s do this. Turned out basically driving it to 120 countries over seven days, millions of people checking it out and playing it. And then the other day, what happened is, Balenciaga set the gold standard for basically fashion and video game tie ins. And then they just recently did something with fortnight in Epic Games. The reality is, is that brands have realized that the new culture is video games, just like when they discovered fashion, I’m sorry, they discovered music, film, television. These are the cultural changes that happen that shape where is the attention economy, games immersiveness. The thing is, what people got to remember is that we learn through games, take any child, any child from zero to seven years old, and zero to 10. Gaming is how we teach them to learn. We play games with them, life is a game so what do you know, here we go work is the game, you got to learn to play the game. You know, think about all these little things we say that has been in front of us as a society for you know, hundreds of years if not 1000s. So I think the thing isn’t the end of day the other side of it as someone to take a look at is as simple as what Roblox and Gucci did. ROBLOX basically did a tie in with Gucci Gucci brought in they’re basically digital versions, digital twins of bags that exists in some that don’t release them from 50 cents to $1.50. within 24 hours, those seams bags went between 4500 to 5500. US dollars, people were buying them not even buying a physical one, but a digital one, which basically showcases the thing about the metaverse that your digital persona is as important to you as the physical persona is, especially for Gen Z. And this is the mind shift. So when we talk about what’s a hurdle, it’s like it’s just generational. Because you know what someone be like, you know, I can hear you know, someone saying, like, why would a kid buy a digital blah, blah, blah, in my day? Well, that’s great in your day you drink, you know, water out of lead pipes. In my day, I didn’t do that. So, you know, this is the difference, you know, but it’s just purely generational. And there are forward thinking generations and I mean, I’ve met some great, you know, boomers that understand, I mean, they’re like the hippie boomers that really get it and they’ve embraced it because this is what they always thought it was gonna be because let’s be clear, the hippie boomers built the internet when it was ARPANET. They’re the guys who built it they’re the guys who built it so this was like the utopia they were creating. It only took 50 years to show up. What do you know

Alexander Ferguson 24:47
what what’s gonna stop the continued growth like what’s what could be the the roadblocks or challenges that we need to overcome for the continued growth in the metaverse

Alexander Fernandez 24:55
to be honest with you, it’s when you get these companies, certain companies that are just kind of creepy think they’re gonna come in and basically control the place because they think you know what, if I lose their attention on my web 2.0 location and web three takes over, I’m out in my model, my surveillance capital model goes out the window. And yes, that’s exactly the point your surveillance capital model should go out the window, because basically being a lurker or a peeping Tom should not be a business model. And I think this is something that we get to in the most bottom of lines, that ultimately in the end, if we’re going to get over to the point where basically, the metaverse ends up being an open, open standard, open economy, we cannot have dominant companies coming in trying to set the tone for everything. Because imagine, imagine if the internet would have been built that way, there would be no TCP IP, there would be no DNS, we would not have had this massive explosive growth if it was controlled by AOL. Remember AOL. I mean, that was, quote, unquote, where the internet was never was a start. But you know, they tried to fashion themselves that way. So imagine another company telling you Oh, yeah, we are the metaverse. No, you’re not. So we can’t and when you read some of the some of the writing, it’s a it’s like a dystopian version of utility where I’m like, you know, only robots and people with no personality would hang out in this place. So Oh, thank you. So

Alexander Ferguson 26:18
if you were to write a prescription to those in business right now, and they’re wanting to capitalize on this direction, what would you be saying to them,

Alexander Fernandez 26:27
I would tell them is basically load up Minecraft, go play with your kids, go play some fortnight, go play some Roblox. Really suspend what you think the economy is, and go to what effectively it is now and understand that this world that is coming right off of your heels that will ultimately overtake when you’re retiring, is your opportunity to effectively leave a legacy play, a legacy play that basically does well for everyone coming up behind you, and more importantly, sets up the future of your organization. So what you want to do is basically sit there and look at interaction design, understand the culture of now, play these games, and basically just realize that you may, you yourself may not find value in it, but isn’t mean it’s less valuable. And the key thing is, you know, I’m sure within your organization, there are some amazing 20 year olds in there. It’s time for them to come and be mentors to you and get that reverse reverse mentorship show that you can start to learn how to be relevant for what effectively is the next 20 to 30 years.

Alexander Ferguson 27:24
Those that want to learn more about streamline and what they’re doing go to streamline-mediagroup.com. Thank you, Alexander for the time that you shared this journey that you’ve been on and this future that you’re painting.

Alexander Fernandez 27:36
No, I appreciate it. And and I would say one other thing. If people out there that are business leaders wanting to hear more, definitely check out video games real talk, which is the podcast we do where we talk about the business of video games, it’s for them to understand and learn from the people there. We have a lot of exciting people that sit there and honestly, those are business leaders sharing their stories and sharing their knowledge with how do you get into things like the metaphors and make it relevant for yourself.

Alexander Ferguson 27:58
You want to learn more there’s a lot of great insights take the time actually went listen to the podcast you guys did on on the Valencia content. So definitely go check that out. Thanks again, Alexander. And we’ll see you all on next episode of UpTech Report. Thanks a lot, man. Have you seen a company using AI machine learning or other technology to transform the way we live work and do business? Go to UpTech report.com and let us know